Comments on: Bad Titanium Parts Impact Military Aircraft Supply Chain

By: Dustin Lobner

Dustin Lobner — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:42:37 +0000

I am a metallurgist working in the aerospace industry as a design support engineer…that is, I tell people what to make things out of. All I can say is, if the allegations are actually true, this is a pretty horrible thing.

To comment to the “forgings are just as strong/stronger than rolled”, that’s not always true. Forgings can be screwed up in a multitude of ways that rolling cannot. Furthermore, the form of the material affects how further heat treatment down the road affects the metal. Sure, raw forgings may be stronger, but what about after heat treatment? Heat treatment is an incredibly variable process which outputs vary based on the input. So what if it was stronger after forging versus rolled? Doesn’t mean it’s going to be stronger in the end product.

As a design engineer, I find this whole idea appauling. When I specify a material, I specify it for a whole host of properties outside of strength: yield strength, elongation, resistance to general corrosion, resistance to stress corrosion cracking, fatigue life, weldabilty, machinability, residual stress levels, etc. Unless you can show me that the forged material is better in ALL of those aspects, then the material is inferior to my needs, end of statement.

It has been said that all material passed spec testing. Again, before or after heat treat? What spec (forging or rolled)? Were mechanicals the only things tested? If so, the material didn’t meet spec (if the forging vs rolled accusation is true) because the specification SPECIFIES THE FORM (rolled, forged, extruded, etc). If they asked for rolled and got forged, regardless of mechancial properties it didn’t meet spec.

By: admin

admin — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:43:50 +0000

Nancy, Thank you for your comment and the statement. And yes, we promise to talk to you before we publish anything!

By: Nancy Luque

Nancy Luque — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:38:01 +0000

We have supplied a lengthy statement for our customers which I will try to send to you. Your readers need to understand that while Western has been tried (and convicted) in the press, they pay me to handle matters in court, not the press. But no one should mistake my “rhetoric” for “spin” or as devoid of fact. Western is a distributor which NEVER bought substandard titanium let alone resold any, and there are no false documents. Our customers have our documentation of independant testing by independant labs of every piece of titanium sold. Can you please make sure that whoever writes of this next at least talks to me?

By: admin

admin — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:41:09 +0000

Please see http://www.spendmatters.com for a follow-up post on this Titanium story. It will appear sometime late next week. Thank you!

By: Jason Busch

Jason Busch — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:06:35 +0000

Shocking how lawyers are skilled only in rhetoric only insofar as it supports their case. Where’s the response? What’s the testing record? I’d like to see it. The noise, then silence upon further questioning, suggests something is not entirely right here.

By: G Shawley

G Shawley — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:15:56 +0000

Lisa, There is public interest on this issue. Please continue to report the facts in this ongoing case.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:43:36 +0000

Thank you for your clarification on Harvey’s comment.

You are right, we don’t understand that every piece of titanium sold by Western was independently tested and found to meet specification. I don’t believe that information has been released to the public.

Which testing organization has independently verified the material?

Did that independent test data verify that it is rolled plate as the standard calls for? My understanding is that the customer speck requires MIL T 9046.

And please, do set the record straight. We’d be pleased to publish your thoughts.
LAR

By: Nancy Luque

Nancy Luque — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:01:27 +0000

Your response to the blogger seems to indicate you believe him to be employed by, or speaking for, Western Titanium. I can assure you that he is/does not, although we can certainly agree with some of his remarks .

You also don’t seem to understand that every piece of titanium sold by Western was independantly tested and found to meet specification. I do think it might be useful to set the record straight here and will give it some thought.